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Post by scansy on Dec 5, 2008 13:53:57 GMT -5
1. I have a dirt hole that two days ago produced a fox, yesterday a coon and then today a cat. (probably get a grinner tomorrow ) Anyway, I obviously reset after the fox and coon - gotta love a catch circle. And I reset today after the cat too. The question is, will cat smell all over the catch circle hurt it? 2. When you are making a scent post set, do you put the trap right in front of the post? Or is it offset to one side or the other? And how close to the post?
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Post by BvrRtrvr on Dec 5, 2008 15:31:22 GMT -5
1. IMO it improves it. And with that much activity there, I would put a second set nearby. Maybe that scent post, or possibly a flat set.
2. If it's a urine &/or gland scent post, I learned to off-set the trap. Allows for the spacing of the paws when the male lifts his leg, or the female to back up to it. If the lure is castor or a curiosity type, I would not off-set as much.
BR
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Post by scansy on Dec 5, 2008 17:59:49 GMT -5
Thanks.
I did put a second set there - a scent post - actually a small rock since it fit in better with the surroundings. A touch of gland lure under it on a stick and then a touch of urine the front of the rock. The rock is maybe three inches high and roughly four by four inches square. I have the trap about two inches from the jaw to the front of the rock and then offset from the center of the rock about 3 or 4 inches. It wouldn't take much to adjust the set a little by moving the rock. Anyway, that's why the question came up about trap placement.
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Post by huckleberry on Dec 5, 2008 19:55:57 GMT -5
I agree 1000% with Bvrtrv..........anytime ya get cat secent down....the set is better off for it. (hope ya don't have to worry about that cat again..........In fact it would be used for bait if it were me.)
Scent posts in fox areas get the trap closer to the backing.......yours sounds about right........hard to say about the offset....since there is nothing at a set like yours that will let ya know which direction the critter will aproach it. If I can........... I do offset....but many times I will think right front foot and catch them by any other foot. Either way it is caught. So IMO opinion at such sets it aint that important. ya cornfused yet? LOL
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Post by scansy on Dec 5, 2008 20:04:56 GMT -5
Thanks for clearing that up huck. I let the cat go - it was at a spot within a 1/4 mile of half a dozen homes. I didn't want to take the chance of dispatching someone's pet.
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Post by Sunshine on Dec 6, 2008 7:06:14 GMT -5
you dont have to worry bout catching that cat again,imo.
i never ever dispatch domestics.
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Post by samuelhasguns on Dec 6, 2008 9:56:51 GMT -5
Bvr is right on.. No you just need patients my friend.
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Post by scansy on Dec 6, 2008 10:27:02 GMT -5
Well, a new twist to this whole thing. This spot is on public land, but I'm at the edge of it - on one side of a tree line. The other side of the tree line is a horse farm - specifically a hay field. Apparently, at some point since yesterday morning, the guy who owns the farm had two dogs get caught in my traps. (Does that count as a double ). When I showed up this morning, my traps were gone. But the guy saw me from his house (about 250 yards away) and walked over. We had a long conversation. He knows I was legal and even acknowledged as much. But he also told me his dogs go on the public land all the time. He uses them to "hunt" for fox - you know, on horse back, release the hounds, chase the fox, but don't shoot it. He considered me in conflict with his desire to have the highest fox population possible. (No sammy, I didn't tell him I was new to this and don't catch too many ..... ) Anyway, I got my traps back. I didn't reset - and I don't think I'm gonna in that spot. If his dogs are over there all the time, it's just not worth my trouble I don't think. It's disappointing because it is a good spot - tree line coming up from a thick creek bottom, between two hay fields, leading to a number of corn fields. By the way, the cat I released the day before was sitting on his back porch when I went to his house with him to get the traps.
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Post by BvrRtrvr on Dec 6, 2008 11:37:07 GMT -5
What? No leash law in PA?
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Post by scansy on Dec 6, 2008 11:47:17 GMT -5
I'm sure there is - but do I want to turn the guy in? What does that get me?
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Post by huckleberry on Dec 6, 2008 13:55:41 GMT -5
Scancy...IMO....ya did the right thing. Let him run his fox hounds since it is right in his back yard. In the long run he will talk about yours and his conversation. Since ya was a nice guy about it and talked like a gentleman......he will talk well of ya. ya might even get some places to trap from it. May not...but how ya feel inside about it?
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Post by scansy on Dec 6, 2008 21:27:58 GMT -5
Huck, it was fine with me - I'm not happy to lose a good spot, but if his dogs are running around fouling up my sets anyway, it's not worth the trouble. And if I called him on the leash thing, he might mess with the traps himself.
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Post by Sunshine on Dec 7, 2008 9:51:03 GMT -5
hound hunters piss me off, they think they rule the whole dam world. id have said, ok, im legal so lets work out a deal.
i set traps here 3 mights a week, you tie your dogs up those three nights. i pull my traps four days and you can run your dogs.
its piblic land both our license fees went to pay for the land. ill even let you pick the 4 days you want long as theyre in succession.
if my traps end up tampered, sprung or disappear during those three days im trapping. youll get a visit from the DNR.
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Post by huckleberry on Dec 7, 2008 10:34:21 GMT -5
Sunny...your a cantankerous ole grouch........ I have made "deals" like that with houndsmen. And they have worked well. Only thing is.....I have never done it on a weekly basis. I havee agreed to let them run one half or prtion of the season and I get to trap the rest. I usually take the last half cause they will be wore tired of huntin by then anyway. If the guy lives right there though.....I would have done what Scansy did..........as long as the guy was civil about the whole deal anyway.
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Post by Sunshine on Dec 7, 2008 16:16:42 GMT -5
i personally wouldnt have made the set there in the first place BUT jerry said up there its hard to trap without almost being in someones back yard,literally.
if its the same warden that was there in that area when jerry trapped there, hed have given that hunter a ticket for tampering with scansys trap if hed reported it.
the guy should have never removed his traps that where my main issue with the jerk lies. he could keep his stupid dog on a chain too if he was so worried about it. why should his desire to run a stupid fox have more weight than scansys right to trap it?
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Post by huckleberry on Dec 7, 2008 17:59:43 GMT -5
It is called COOPERATION. let your dander down and listen ...sheesh.
I understand the fella possbly...most likely did......break a few laws. If he does in fact let his hounds run loose all the time. I doubt he does though. Removing the traps would have riled me too.
However....he did come to Scansy when he seen him there. that would go a long way with me as to how I dealt with him. The guy seemd like a nice enough guy. Explained his side to Scansy, and told him he had the traps. He ASKED that scansy not trap there and why. I would of done the same as Scansy did. Sure I would have hated to give up a good spot, but I realize the guy lives right there.....hunts in his own back yard so to speak. Even if it is public land.
If the guy had been a jerk ...I would have told him to whiz up a rope..evidently he wasn't.
I owned land in TN. that others hunted on without askin me or dad or Uncle Rod permission. When I seen them there I would go talk to them....or wait till thier hunt was over and talk to them. Out of the many....i only ran one off. He lied to me from the get go which don't set well with me. I did have to get the CO after him later. The others were nice folks that liked to hunt is all. Most thought the land was public or was part of another fellas land. No big deal.....ya act civil with most outdoors folks and they will do the same.
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Post by Sunshine on Dec 7, 2008 21:53:47 GMT -5
what that guy done was not to cooperate, he basically got his own way.
im not downin scansy for his choice to not reset BUT the guy was a jerk and i really think that the way piblic land is used or llowed to be used should be visited.
why shouldnt there be a period, say a month or something where trappers get use of the public land , exclusively like the hunters or at least get a month where the hound hunters are put on notice that the trappers are in their trapping and ya run your dogs at your own risk?
in WV my license fees cost the same as a hunter and i should be allowed to use that public land as i wish as well long as im legal.
ya dont want your dog caught? chain him up.
WV is really messed up, our DNR in my opinion is biased against trappers and our association stands by and doesnt do anything about it,imo.
why should i have to have a permit to trap coon on a public land and turn in how many ive caught within 10 days of the end of season or i cant trap the area again the next year,but the hound huinters can hunt it every night and never ever have to turn in the number of coon theyve harvested.
the only people that have to have a permit to use public land here in the trapper and its BS.
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Post by huckleberry on Dec 8, 2008 1:01:38 GMT -5
Sounds like WV is alot like IL in those regards. But have you asked why we the trappers have to fill out reports and not the hunters?
Here on state owned properties EVERYONE has to sign in and sign with their takes written down. For trappers it goes one step further and we have a "drawing" at most of the state sites. We are always made to use DP sets on land. Water trapping is more along state regs. It differs from site to site. Some traps we can't use at all on these sites. Some regs really hand cuff...while others are good sound decisions made by the state biologists.
By asking those who know....I have found that the trappers are asked to do these reports to better keep track of what is taken and where. I wouldn't be surprised at all to find out our state org. offered this as a way of showing how trapping does help control populations. Among other things. IE traps are safe....they don't mane and kill domestics...etc etc. Mostly though to show that trapping is the best way for wild animal control.
Why don't they ask the hunters for a more precise report? IMO....there are so many more of them it would be so cost prohibitive it wouldn't be worth it. The number of hunters alone is mind boggling in a given year. The number of trappers is getting lower each year.
I am trapping four state sites this year. I will do my very best to take care of the critters i was told they need taken most of. Coon and beaver are always a problem. Although one park this year wants me to trap as many mink as I can. (they also have a feral dog problem which i am working on with them) Also and I know this from talkin to them.....they can't let hunters in as much because of location and safetry of the campers there. Camping is not big here in the winter, but some still camp year round. They have found it is much safer for them to have trappers come in and catch the critters then it is for hunters to be there all day and night after each of theirs specific animal. Hunting is allowed in some oparks...not allowed in others. In my area trapping is allowed at all of them. With special regs as stated above.
I understand this is in IL., you live and trap WV. But...my point is.....it may very well be that they are thinking like IL. and know they can better suit their needs with trappers rather than hunters. For more reasons then many realize.
Soooo if ya was look into it...ya may find trappers are better taken care of then ya might think. At least they know we can do a better job for them.
Now on Federal land...it is pretty much wide open.....at least here. What I fail to understand is why so many trappers have run ins with houndsmen when I have had so very few. It may be because our state org. and the coon hunters here work together to solve the problems within our ranks. Maybe that is what is needed in other states? Remember...there are some real slob trappers just as there is slob houndsmen. But all in all...we all share the same desire.
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Post by Sunshine on Dec 8, 2008 7:37:06 GMT -5
if thye dont ask everyone who cares how many coon a few trappers are taking? if theyre looking for ccurate info they would have the hunters send in their catch and not the trappers and it dont cost them anything cept opening an envelope cause we send em in and pay the postage.
yes i did qquestion them as to why trappers had to fill otu daily reports nd not anyone elose and the only answer i got was thats the law.
what a bunch of BS!
it should be like MS when ya go onto a public huting area you sign in and when you come off you sign out put down your harvest..everyone , hunters and trappers.
huck i have looked into lot of descrepencies between the treatment of hunters vs trappers in my state and the hunters re allowed complete access to public land and the hound hunters have special treatment and thats the WAY IT IS.
even the envelopes the DNR sends out says right on the front of them, Hunting and fishing traditions preserved or some BS, not a single positive word about traping.
they dont even have trapping info at the hunt shows here and what trappin info is out there at those conventions comes from the USDA not the trapping association or the DNR.
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Post by scansy on Dec 8, 2008 9:09:11 GMT -5
Whoa - it sounds like I stirred up some debate here. Sunny and huck bickering with each other. Ahhhhh, just like old times. Sunny, I am not familiar with WV and it's laws, etc. and I don't know much about the state in terms of density of homes, etc. Around here in the SE of PA, a lot of govts buy land to keep "open space" - townships, counties, state. But in some ways, that's a problem for hunters - and even more so for trappers. All of these seem to buy the land, and then ban guns, hunting, trapping. They would rather have that forest/old farm open for people to walk their dogs. Around here, when someone says they are outdoorsy or an outdoorsman, usually what they mean is they ride their bikes (mountain bikes or road bikes), they take walks in the woods or they walk their dogs a couple of times a month. I have one location (or I should say had) that is owned by a local township. Last year, their web page said it was open to all outdoor recreation. So I called to make sure and they said yes, it was open to hunting and trapping. It was a great spot for me last year - abandoned farm, tree lines, old tractor roads that were maintained - perfect fox habitat. I had two locations that produced 4 fox each - about 30 yards apart. This summer, the land was posted? I called the township and they said they got complaints about the hunting (no mention of trapping) and apparently there was some internal discussions at the township and they decided to just close it. So now, they own about 150 acres that is still great fox habitat - and deer and small game too - and their is a stream that runs through it that was popular for fishing. Now, nobody can use the land. Not even the mountain bikers and dog walkers. How does that make sense? I trap on a state park near here. It too is really popular with the hikers, dog walkers, horse riders and also hunters. I caught 3 fox there in one location last year - it's a great fox spot too, but I won't trap it until later in the season - when the weather is worse and the number of walkers is down, deer season is over and the small game hunters are less. Even then, I pull the set on Saturday morning at daybreak and remake on Monday morning to avoid the busy times. It's just something I do. I'm pretty certain I'm the only one trapping the state park - but don't want to cause any "trouble" because I think they would change the rules to eliminate trapping if they got complaints. Besides, does it make sense for me to check on the weekends - using up my time - when I know there's a good chance that somebody got their dog into my sets and wasted them. In the meantime, I have walked that park from end to end several times. I trap it now in locations that I know aren't used much. The locations are marginal sometimes, but I set there and cross my fingers. Caught two coon so far in that state park this season. I have asked several local land owners for permission. One had just had their dog get into a scuffle with a coon and they had to get it the rabies shots since they didn't have the coon to test. They said they had tons of coon and fox and would probably allow me to trap, but come back in a month or so to confirm (it was early September when I stopped it). When I returned, they changed their mind. They didn't want someone running around their property that they didn't know. I will go back in the summer and ask for next season again since I know they are recpetive to the idea, but for this season it didn't work out. I have another farm where I met the son who said, oh yes, we would be ok with you trapping after we harvest. That was in the summer. I went back to the farm in the early fall - before the season to firm things up and the dad was there - apparently he still owns the farm and he said no way. Not that he was against trapping - but in this area he and a lot of farmers are leery of others on their land - honestly its because we have a ton of idiots around here. Guys who hunt and if they don't see anything will shoot a farmers fence post, or barn, or something stupid like that just because they feel when they hunt its their right to shoot something. I plan to do more asking in the next off season. Hopefully with better results. Access to good land is easily the biggest problem around here for a trapper. The number of animals is good - especially for fox. We have a ton of fox. I guess what I'm saying is - even though I hate it, I'm in an area where trappers access is tough - and could be made worse by me even if I do things completely legal. If a township/county/state official is getting complaints from many people about the trapper and I'm the only one on the other side of the arguement, the govt guy will side with the larger numbers. It's ashame that I feel that way, but I have learned that's how things are around here. In the specific case that started this whole discussion, I do like sunny's idea about talking to him and working out a "deal". The guy was decent about things - he wasn't an anti. He might go for something like that. If not, my concern is that he can see me making/checking sets from his house. I'm just asking for traps to go missing. In the mean time, the bulk of our deer season is over in a week. There will be less hunters around, if nothing else.
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Post by huckleberry on Dec 8, 2008 10:12:35 GMT -5
LOL.......yeah ya did.....but then......her and I would debate where the sun comes up iffn we took a notion.
Ok Sunny......again.....your state aint much differnt then any others I avhe been in. You will never see anything about trapping at thye IDNR events unless the trappers themselves pout it there. At the state fairs they do have a small section of their area set aside for trapping...but that is it as far as I know. Of course the trapping regs are in the anual digest also.
I avhe no idea as to what the real numbers are in IL. for hunters and trappers....but i assure you trappers are out numbered probably at least 10-1. Although most everyone that traps also has a hunting lisc.
Seems you have a problem with hound hunters there. Here...it is the duck and goose hunters that get their way and we are made to follow. Ya wanna guess why? Can you say MONEY? I am betting without being there that is a big part of it there also.
You can ask any trapper around here that talks with the state at all and they will tell ya they are asked to trap beaver about every year at some state sites. The hang up is...they want them trapped after the goose season is over. That aint till the beaver are fightin and are so bitten up they are about worthless. When we tell them we will do it for them........... but earlier...they act like we asked to do their daughters or something. They don't want the duck and goose hunters upset. Can't tell them us being there wouldn't disturb the geese or ducks........oh no......that would be sinful. Soooo....the beaver population gets worse each year. Oh well.......i like takin folks to watch them in the summer. LOL
On the other hand. Ther ITA works very welll with the state here. I know of at least one state/federal area that has been set aside as a trapping area for kids. As far as i know no hunters will allowed there while the trapping seasopn is open. Like said, it is for the youth trappers only. I applaud the efforts it took by a bunch of peaple to get that done.
I gotta go for now...will be back to knock heads again later tonight.......lol
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Post by tctrppr on Dec 8, 2008 16:49:18 GMT -5
She's basically spot-on. WV trappers are the lepers of the state- right up till the DNR gets a bunch of complaints about beaver/muskrat/coon damage. Then we're flavor of the month until the problem is resolved. Then, we can disappear till they need us again. That's why I RARELY trap public land up here. Fortunate enough to have enough private land to keep me happy. If I had to trap public ground only, probably wouldn't bother with it at all, and our DNR officer is an ok guy, to boot.
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Post by Sunshine on Dec 8, 2008 18:23:36 GMT -5
thanks for the back up tc. Huck
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Post by huckleberry on Dec 8, 2008 18:30:01 GMT -5
yeah...well lick this........ ...........Sweet heart.
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Post by Sunshine on Dec 8, 2008 18:53:20 GMT -5
my name aint Dorothy
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Post by huckleberry on Dec 8, 2008 19:01:05 GMT -5
No it sure aint..she gets this You get this
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Post by Sunshine on Dec 8, 2008 19:16:06 GMT -5
*purrr purrrr purrrr* .arent i lucky ;D too bad you aint the ONE
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Post by huckleberry on Dec 8, 2008 23:21:02 GMT -5
I knew ya was kinky.......sheesh I bet Dorothy would disagree with ya on me being the ONE.
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Post by Sunshine on Dec 8, 2008 23:26:27 GMT -5
course she would, youve brain washed her ;D
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Post by huckleberry on Dec 8, 2008 23:59:46 GMT -5
Nope......she just knows the best when she sees it.......If i spoil her anymore.....won't nobody could stand to be around her....I am like that ya know......spoil my woman......and she tries to spoil mje back. Da-mn Good woman she is.
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