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Post by trapper7 on Apr 14, 2011 11:32:48 GMT -5
The republicans want to stop all funding to Planned Parenthood because they contend the majority of all funding to them is used for abortions. The democrats opposes this by saying this is not so. After an extensive study, Timothy Carney of the Washington Examiner reports that in 2009 Planned Parenthood performed 332,278 abortions, counseled 7,021 prenatal clients, and referred 977 parents to adoption. Are democrats really that stupid or do they just make it a habit of lying? It's easy to see why the democrats are considered the party of the left, while the republicans are considered the party of the right. Instead of the "left" maybe it should be called the "wrong".
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haus
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Post by haus on Apr 27, 2011 10:01:25 GMT -5
Adopted many kids? I find it interesting that republicans are against abortions but also against etitlement programs. Lets assume the governement paid for every last one of the abortions you posted. How much did it cost, couple grand each? Now tell me how much they would have paid for the hospital bill and associated medical costs for the mother to have the child. Then figure in the cost of WIC, Food Stamps, Medicaid, free school lunches, earned income tax money the mother would receive when filing taxes, the cost to go to public school, etc... If the child turns into a non-productive adult then you can also add the cost of jail, prison, etc...
Stopping all these abortions will not help our society. Stopping abortions does not mean baby jack and jill will live some fairy tale life. Those of us that have worked with drug addicted babies, kids with fetal alcohol syndrome, down syndrome, or counseled kids who were beat daily throughout their childhood wonder if they would have been better of not ever coming into the world.
Palin's challenged kid will likely always be taken care of since she has money, but most end up in a nursing home set up for the mentally ill. I worked in one and its just a holding cell for them to live out thier lives and then die alone.
I don't care if your against public funded abortions, but its just like when you go hunting or shooting, you also have to look at what is beyond the backstop.
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Post by trapper7 on Apr 27, 2011 10:25:44 GMT -5
Ah! Spoken like a true liberal democrat! Moral issue is meaningless. What if your mother had decided to have an abortion instead of having you?
"For those who understand this moral issue, no explanation is necessary. For those who don't understand, no explanation is possible."
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Post by hawkeye on Apr 27, 2011 11:16:08 GMT -5
I find it interesting that republicans are against abortions but also against etitlement programs. Typical liberal tripe, twisting what Republicans say. Why is it that the liberals that feed from the public trough always take what Republicans say out of context? Republicans are not against entitlement programs that are truly needed. They are against frivolous entitlements and the abuse of those entitlements that essential to Americans. We don't like people driving Cadillacs that are paid for with welfare checks and people on food stamps eating better than people working every day.
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Post by trapper7 on Apr 27, 2011 11:38:55 GMT -5
Good point, Hawkeye. We have a guy that comes to our food shelf driving a 2008 Lexus SUV. He claims his only income is SS and an occasional handyman job. Nothing you can do about it, even though you know he's probably a liar.
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Post by thrstyunderwater on Apr 27, 2011 15:47:21 GMT -5
I've read that while Clinton was in office our country saw a large drop in crime, drug usage, ect. There's a pretty believable argument that's because abortions were made legal in our country 18 years before.
I'm pro choice but can understand how someone is pro life and won't accept any other option. That said can any pro lifers on here admit that there is a potential this country saw a benefit from legalizing abortions and not having more delinquents in our society?
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Post by trapper7 on Apr 27, 2011 16:03:42 GMT -5
thrsty, you and I have been down this road before. My quote in my post applies.
First of all, I'd be interested in your source stating a reduction in crime and drug usage during Clinton's administration. But, even if it were credible, to say it was due in part to legalized abortion is ridiculous.
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Post by thrstyunderwater on Apr 27, 2011 16:26:56 GMT -5
thrsty, you and I have been down this road before. My quote in my post applies. First of all, I'd be interested in your source stating a reduction in crime and drug usage during Clinton's administration. But, even if it were credible, to say it was due in part to legalized abortion is ridiculous. Why is it ridiculous? crack mommy + crack daddy = crack baby crack mommy + crack daddy -abortion = no crack baby No crack baby, no crack baby problems. Really, how is it not plausible that our country saw a direct benefit from not allowing degenerates from being born? Do you honestly not believe that could happen or will you not admit that something positive could actually result from an abortion?
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Post by hawkeye on Apr 27, 2011 16:44:01 GMT -5
I'm one of those conservatives that does believe in abortion, with one caveat, your first one is free, if you reveal who the father is and he pays for the operation. If you don't know, you get your tubes tied. After the second one, you get your tubes tied.
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Post by haus on Apr 27, 2011 20:39:54 GMT -5
Ah! Spoken like a true liberal democrat! Moral issue is meaningless. What if your mother had decided to have an abortion instead of having you? "For those who understand this moral issue, no explanation is necessary. For those who don't understand, no explanation is possible." I understand the morale issue, but I believe separation of church and state applies. You have the freedom to run your family as you see fit. Forcing ones morales on others by denying them access to a service is not a morale act that will somehow get you into heaven. Discussing options with a pregnant girl and adopting her baby is a morale act. If she goes through with an abortion it won't keep you out of heaven, since it was her decision.
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haus
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Post by haus on Apr 27, 2011 20:44:43 GMT -5
I find it interesting that republicans are against abortions but also against etitlement programs. Typical liberal tripe, twisting what Republicans say. Why is it that the liberals that feed from the public trough always take what Republicans say out of context? Republicans are not against entitlement programs that are truly needed. They are against frivolous entitlements and the abuse of those entitlements that essential to Americans. We don't like people driving Cadillacs that are paid for with welfare checks and people on food stamps eating better than people working every day. I agree. I also agree disabled people collecting a check should not be able to work and not just lazy. Vets working a full time job should not be drawing a disability check for instance. Bill is being proposed to keep them from drawing VA and SSA at the same time also.
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Post by hawkeye on Apr 27, 2011 20:57:55 GMT -5
Ah! Spoken like a true liberal democrat! Moral issue is meaningless. What if your mother had decided to have an abortion instead of having you? "For those who understand this moral issue, no explanation is necessary. For those who don't understand, no explanation is possible." I understand the morale issue, but I believe separation of church and state applies. You have the freedom to run your family as you see fit. Forcing ones morales on others by denying them access to a service is not a morale act that will somehow get you into heaven. Discussing options with a pregnant girl and adopting her baby is a morale act. If she goes through with an abortion it won't keep you out of heaven, since it was her decision. So by that reasoning murder should be legal because the government should not impose morals on us and murder is immoral. A LOT of people are against abortion, not because of religous convictions, but because they feel that taking the life of a human being is murder.
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Post by haus on Apr 27, 2011 21:12:25 GMT -5
Murder is illegal because its a law. Abortion is legal because it is not against the consitution. If its your morales to not kill someone don't join the military or let your wife or daughter have an abortion. And by your logic it would also be immoral for the government to execute prisoners. But I'm saying don't force others to live by your morales.
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Post by huckleberry on Apr 27, 2011 22:47:35 GMT -5
Abortion is murder...PERIOD.
Our Government, which is the people, should never ever allow for the funding of such. Morales real God fearing, God loveing, Morales is what this country was based on. It should be brought back to that state of mind.
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Post by trapper7 on Apr 28, 2011 9:40:34 GMT -5
Don't waste your breath guys. There are people who will never really understand the true relevance of moral and immoral. Their explanations are purely physical, as you would expect from a typical liberal mind.
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Post by thrstyunderwater on Apr 28, 2011 9:54:27 GMT -5
Don't waste your breath guys. There are people who will never really understand the true relevance of moral and immoral. Their explanations are purely physical, as you would expect from a typical liberal mind. Are you going to throw up your arms in frustration and say, "they're liberals, they can't relate to us?" Really? I admitted I can understand how pro-lifers will never consider abortion a good thing, that it's murder. Will you not admit though it is murder, it potentially has benefited our society by not letting degenerates grow up into criminals? If you admit that you're not supporting abortion, it's still perfectly fine if you think it's wrong. I just want to know if you think it's impossible abortion has the effects previously stated.
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Post by trapper7 on Apr 28, 2011 15:31:55 GMT -5
Everybody has a right to be alive. And who decides at birth whether they are a degenerate or not? Many times our liberal society makes them that way, but puts the blame on family. Sometimes they're accurate. Sometimes they're not.
There are plenty of people born into good families that go bad and become serial killers, or rapists, or drug addicts. And there are those who are born into pathetic family situations, yet turn out as valuable members of society. I'm not qualified to make that determination at birth and neither are you.
The other difference is that I believe in giving everyone a chance. It's obvious you do not. You want to pick and choose who should live and who should die.
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Post by thrstyunderwater on Apr 28, 2011 17:16:57 GMT -5
You want to pick and choose who should live and who should die. You got that right. I think that any retard should be put down, any debilitating handicap should be put down, anyone with cancer should be put down, anyone over the age of 65 (takes care of medicare and social security!) As well as anyone with: herpes the flu a broken arm baldness green eyes over 6'5" under 4'8" gay name starts with R a birthday on an odd day likes raisin cookies over chocolate chip chooses coke over pepsi I am a raging liberal. I have the right to decide who lives and dies.
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Post by hawkeye on Apr 28, 2011 18:16:14 GMT -5
OMG! I'm liberal, I only disagreed with 2 of those. I can't help that my birthday falls on an odd day, and I think green eyes on a red head are sexy, as long as it's an authentic female. Other than that - kill em all.
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Post by thrstyunderwater on Apr 28, 2011 18:47:28 GMT -5
All right Hawkeye, let's combine our RAGING liberal powers.
Let's kill everyone that doesn't live in a state that starts with a vowel! To heck with aborting babies, let's abort entire states!
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Post by thrstyunderwater on Apr 28, 2011 18:56:26 GMT -5
Oh no trapper7, your states start with an M.
Get the coathanger.
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Post by hawkeye on Apr 28, 2011 20:52:36 GMT -5
Can we start with Kansas? My in-laws live in Kansas.
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Post by hawkeye on Apr 28, 2011 21:01:38 GMT -5
Thrsty, I thought I banned you for eating tofu?
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Post by thrstyunderwater on Apr 28, 2011 21:38:35 GMT -5
Thrsty, I thought I banned you for eating tofu? No for some reason that just bothers you a lot. Would it make it better if I came up with an abortion/tofu joke?
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Post by hawkeye on Apr 28, 2011 22:52:01 GMT -5
It would help. It won't get you into my elk camp until after next election, but it would help!
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Post by thrstyunderwater on Apr 28, 2011 23:11:04 GMT -5
hmmm, who else wants to hear an abortion/tofu joke?
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Post by hawkeye on Apr 29, 2011 1:03:22 GMT -5
Nobody! Any red blooded trapper that is worth his salt doesn't joke about abortion and tofu turns his stomache.
Except for me! Well, abortion isn't a joking matter. I have known too many women that ave had them and have been haunted by it. I truly don't believe a man can make a decision whether it is right or wrong. They might be the father and insist that their wife or girlfriend gives birth, but they aren't the ones doing it, are they?
A man in a robe thinks he has the right to tell a woman she HAS to give birth? Nope. It really is not up to the men to make that decision. What man has ever had sex at least one time just for the reason of procreating and not for pleasure?
So we have sex for pleasure and expect the woman to give birth whether she wants to or not.
I trult believe a man, whether he is the father or not, does not have the right to make a decision. It is up to the woman.
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Post by trapper7 on Apr 29, 2011 9:53:01 GMT -5
I don't agree. A woman gets pleasure from sex as well as a man. Or, at least she should. A woman can say no. An alternative to abortion is adoption. However, many women deciding to give up her baby at birth changes her mind after she has it and decides to keep it. I'm with you thrsty up to a point. The pro-life people consider me pro-choice. The pro-abortion people consider me pro-life. The reason being I agree with abortion under 3 conditions: Rape, incest, or to save the life of the mother. Pro-life people disagree with abortion under any condition, including those three.
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Post by hawkeye on Apr 29, 2011 10:44:40 GMT -5
Yeah, people are standing in line eager to adopt a crack baby. WHatever happend to orphanages? Do they even have them anymore?
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Post by trapper7 on Apr 29, 2011 11:47:35 GMT -5
The saddest part about adoption is how difficult they make it and how expensive it is. My daughter and her husband looked into adoption. It would have cost them several thousand to adopt a baby.
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