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Post by Sunshine on Jun 21, 2007 11:26:56 GMT -5
Ive had this discussion with a couple people and wondered what you guys think.. Do you think that human scent is an issue on your line? Is there a difference between its affects on a water versus a land line? TY for your .02
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Post by whitetailaddict on Jun 21, 2007 11:36:31 GMT -5
Absolutely on both, this is why I think, how I do.
Best example I can give.
Last fall sitting 27 feet up a big ol' Poplar, I hear an animal trotting through the woods, this was early Nov. So naturally, I think, Ol mossy horns is late getting back to the swamp. At 20 yards I see this coyote, coming straight at my tree. With the wind blowing directly away from the dog, he crosses opposite of my tree and hits the trail I walked in to the tree, nearly 4 hours earlier. I wish I would have had a chance to film him, when he hit that trail, he did not stop, hesitate, or even think. He reacted, in midstep he turned, leaped away and bolted 15 yards before stopping, to look back. An ACC slammed behind the front shoulder at that point. Now 2 hours later, only half the time that elapsed from me to the coyote, a buck comes grunting in from a different direction, crosses both my trail and the coyotes, doesn't even hesitate. ( He also got an arrow)This was a mature 4.5 year old buck, since this encounter, I have treated my k-9 sets, just like I am bowhunting, literally down to using scent killer.
Dryland mink, coon, fisher, otter, marten, and the likes, I don't concern myself as much. However once you get in a habit, it just kind of carries over, at least for me.
I don't worry about water trapping scent too much, I just haven't seen where it affects much either way there.
Of course all this is just my opinion, which may or may not mean anything to some. WTA
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Post by mink1574 on Jun 21, 2007 12:04:33 GMT -5
stay clean,ya know dont be emptying your bladder to close to your set. Really dont believe your gonna fool that canine nose,they know how old that scent is. An example: they know if it was 10 minutes ago or at 6am this morning by how fresh your trail is. Human scent to me isnt an issue in farm country,were they smell humans all the time.
WTA,were ya out aways were yotes have little human contact?
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Post by whitetailaddict on Jun 21, 2007 12:09:50 GMT -5
Big woods of Northern Wisconsin, but less than .5 mile from a town of 400. WTA
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Post by mink1574 on Jun 21, 2007 12:22:03 GMT -5
and at dispersal time,so ya coulda had a pup thats had little contact.
just yesterday here in Jackson,not sure of pop., at the jct. of I20 & I 55 there laid a dead yote.Plus all the other town yotes .
Huck chime in ,ya do yote ADC in town also.
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Post by cajunbill2 on Jun 21, 2007 13:56:33 GMT -5
water trapping i would say no..think about this how can a animal smell a trap under water..now on the bank all you need to do is splash water on the bank to weaken the smell. but on land yes..the smell of steel no because they see it every day..but a forien odor yes.sent will slow your catches....the main thing is never get bait or lure near the trap...human scent i have not found to be a major problem because they come in contact at least once or twice a day near town..but in a remote area yes you need to keep the scent down because they don't have the contacts with the human odor like there brothers next to town
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Post by offshoretrash on Jun 21, 2007 20:22:29 GMT -5
Do you think that human scent is an issue on YOUR line? Is there a difference between its affects on a water versus a land line? NO and NO Whitetail i have a similar story but different ending. i was bow hunting some new ground so i went in there and scouted me a place to set up. i walked out and got my stand and walked back in. i set my stand up and climb the tree and set in for an evening hunt. with in an couple hours i heard something walking towards my spot it was thick and i had to wait til it got right up on me to tell what it was. it was a coyote following my earlier footsteps step by step. at the time i didn't know why it was doing this but to find out i had stepped in fox crap and it was trailing me. the coyote came all the way to the very base of my tree where i had stood while putting the climbing stand on the tree. he was looking for me or the fox i don't know, but when i tried to get a shot on him my arrow fell off the rest and he looked up and hauled butt. i know that coyote could smell my scent on that trail too because i was just wearing hiking shoes not rubber boots but i think he had something else on his mind and the human scent didn't bother him he was focused on finding that fox. where i trap if a coyote got all worked up eveyrtime he smelled fresh or old human scent he would go crazy. i know some places where there ain't much human activity they may be a lot more worried about it. i am sure they can determine the difference from where you've been to if your there now. now having said this i do take every precaution to limit my scent while trapping. i use scentless deodorant and use scentless soap and shampoo. i am not a stinking slob when i go set traps but i don't worry about putting my knee on the ground or touching my traps barehanded. i caught a coyote last year in a set i sneezed on while making the set on the second night! i thought for sure i wouldn't catch anything there. i am no pro or big numbers guy BUT i have every confidence that when i make a set for a coyote he is gonna be there in the morn. to me if you make the set look natural, on location, and put something there the coyote wants you are gonna catch coyotes.
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Post by mink1574 on Jun 21, 2007 21:07:58 GMT -5
the rubbe bots IMO dont matter. growing up coon hunted bout every night .those ole hounds can follow ya anyway,lol
dont trap sloppy,stay neat,but dont go overboard neither worrying bout it.
Just for kicks I once set brand new traps in the grease,just to see, caught 3 greys outta those two sets,bout 12 feet apart.
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Post by deerhunter65347 on Jun 21, 2007 22:00:24 GMT -5
Mink ive done that same thing and still caught them as well. I think some times yotes follow human scent in hopes of a free meal it just takes them a little longer to work it is all. Water trapping i do from canoe so it isnt a problem for me.
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Post by mink1574 on Jun 23, 2007 7:41:41 GMT -5
LOL DH thought I was the only one ornery enough to try it...not on an every day basis though.
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Post by sixbits on Jun 23, 2007 15:57:48 GMT -5
First post here !! most of ya have been at this longer than than I have but in my humble opinion I think trappers are too concerned about scent .Reasons! I take at least 3 kids trapping over thier winter break .seems kids have to pee every time we stop so they go on every bush they can find. last year the 8yr old went 15ft from a fox trap the next morning fox was in that trap .I see this with the cats they cought also. scent no big deal .
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Post by mink1574 on Jun 23, 2007 16:13:10 GMT -5
congrats on your first post, look to see more from ya.
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Post by sixbits on Jun 23, 2007 18:51:58 GMT -5
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Post by huntwithdogs on Jun 23, 2007 19:26:21 GMT -5
My way of thinking on this subject it this: Anyone can catch a fur bearing animal or predator sooner or later with a smelly sloppy set. Thing is, that in most cases it is the young of the year or if your lucky, an elder with curiosity or hunger pains too severe to care. If you trap for the business sense, why would anyone want to take risks by letting the seasoned and aged animals go? You say skim the cream and move on, yes, that's what a business man will do, but he also knows that if you take some precautions with leaving smaller amounts of unatural odors at a set, the odors will dissipate quicker and take a few more of the shy, seasoned types along with the young and unknowing. Of course you will never get by without leaving your scent at a set, but I do think that the stronger your smell is the longer it takes for most mature animals to work your set. So....why not keep clean trapline habits, and help nature dilute your odor down, so you can catch a wider array of ages and sizes in a shorter amount of time? Look at the big name trappers we have growen to know. I bet they started out catching several animals just by kneeling right on the bare ground and no use of gloves. Thing is, if you talk to them and/or read thier books, almost everyone of them had pretty hardcore ideas of cleanliness. Why? cause they realized they could catch a fair number of animals with less thought of cleanliness as they have proven to themselves earlier in thier careers, but over time they also learned that by cleaning up thier habits, they added extra pelts in a shorter period of time too. They not only caught the young of the year, but they caught some of those extra older and shyer animals within a shorter amount of time as well. It is important to catcha variety quickly, as young furs don't help a trapper's average much when it comes time to sell. You need to get those matures too.
In the West here, you don't want to take many chances at your sets, cause the turn around time in between animal visits can stretch out too long and really hurt a trapper's average! In the more human populated areas, where unnatural smells are much more occurent, and animal ranges tend to overlap, the chances for heavier catch may be much easier to come by.
My idea on water trapping is simply this: I don't find it all that necassary to take the time and really watch my personal scenting of a trap location. I do see it very necassary to control it when dealing with the "sly" animals though, as when doing ADC work, and trying for that very last animal.
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Post by huckleberry on Jun 23, 2007 20:30:35 GMT -5
Every critter out there is differnt. For more reasons than can be listed here. I have seen a few guys catch yotes with traps I could smell. I ahve seen some yotes that wouldn't go within twenty feet of a so called "clean" trap. Why? That is beyond me. I figure it is the critters past experiances. What I mean is this. A yote that has been shot at chased, or clipped with a trap will learn really fast to be leary of what ever secent was there and even the location. Or type of location. One that has been around humans but never chased or shot at or trapped has no fear of human scent. I don't believe it is a natural built in reflex for them to be sacred of humans. Not in the way it is for say a mouse to be scared of a cat or a fox of a yote, or a yote of a wolf.
I keep my stuff clean, but I worry more about odors that will make them dig then I do about ascent that will run them off or stop them from coming in. My bait/lure should over ride any slight scent at a set. If they are hungry, they are gonna get the meal they think is there. if they are mating, they are near stupid and don't give a hoot about nuttin but gettin laid. Those are the two thighs I deal with when trappin yotes. Food, and family affairs. Their whole life spirals around them both.
I jsut got comapny so I will go on a little later..........
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Post by sixbits on Jun 23, 2007 20:35:49 GMT -5
Huntwithdogs ,I agree with what you said ,all I was trying to say is you can make your trap line work leaving scent where you trap .It is a lot harder to keep every thing the way you would like with 3 to 5 kids on line . My point is I have read if you leave any scent you {CANT }make the catch !!! not true just my humble opinion
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Post by mink1574 on Jun 23, 2007 20:53:07 GMT -5
nip an ole yote and try to recatch in the same loc.,thats tuff.
lost one outta #2 jump I had set for fox(just for fun) 40 or 50 yards outta the back door. pulled out as gettin closer in the dark,before work. he would come up to 10 feet and mark and kick back. wouldnt work any set that I put in. took him in a trail set....pasture ..wide open,snow on the ground,couldnt set a snare.
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Post by cajunbill2 on Jun 25, 2007 15:10:44 GMT -5
you all are right but if a animal has a run in with human scent yes you best be clean because if you are not you will waste more time trying to catch that animal..every time he smells human scent he will relate to danger and will be harder to catch..i have caught greys using a rebar stake as a scent post set bare handed...i always neal on the ground and i never ever use gloves period...i have washed my hands in red fox urine to cover my scent then one week i ran out and it did not hurt my catch at all....but once i had some coyotes to remove and another trapper could not catch and i went in with every thing cleaned and bingo the second night i got him....stay clean and you will see that it helps when the time comes and you want have to second guess him...remember keeping things clean is one thing and covering your scent is another subject because the too are totaly different....trying to cover human scent can't be done because no matter what ..the animal will always know you was there.you just need to convince him that you mean him no harm.i have seen hunters put a masking scent on thier clothes and then brush up on a bush or limb with thier arms ..so what do you think .did it do any good no because they still left human scent.the animal knew he was there..
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Post by huckleberry on Jun 25, 2007 16:02:33 GMT -5
I do agree the cleaner the better.......................most of the time.............at other times it is not as important.
Now where I trap there is humans everywhere. Every little thing is being touched or has been touched by humans. I still use some of them for scent posts and catch yotes there. heck I caught a yote 2 years ago where a fella had sit for three days deer huntin. On the bale of hay he was usin. I have thought that was because the yote had never had any reaon to fear the scent on the bale of hay. That is precisily why I set it in fact. The fella was not the cleanest person in the world and had left scraps of crackers and other morsels around. A simple set got him the first night.
Now if that same guy had shot at the yote, I would have never caught him there. I don't think I would have anyway.
Each person also has a different scent. We smell like what we eat. Smokers smell a loot different tha non smokers too. While a particualr yote may fear this guys scent, he may not fear another humans.
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Post by sixbits on Jun 25, 2007 22:37:53 GMT -5
whats your thinking on rust for fox or cats ? I don't think it matters one bit on cage traps mine have lots of rust doesn't seem to stop the reds or cats from going on in.
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Post by foxman13 on Jun 27, 2007 12:43:12 GMT -5
sure human scent makes a difference, and no u can't eliminate all of it. Foxes and other wildlife around here do not necessarily equate the smell of humans to danger; because, they live with that smell 24/7. U do want to cut down as much as possible, because u don't want it to be like u're dead upwind of the animal when he comes to the set. I use gloves and clean traps, only kneel when in hip boots and am careful to keep my lure away from my dry dirt and other equipment!
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Post by cajunbill2 on Jun 27, 2007 14:26:46 GMT -5
whats your thinking on rust for fox or cats ? I don't think it matters one bit on cage traps mine have lots of rust doesn't seem to stop the reds or cats from going on in. rust is a sign of the trap needing to be taken care of...as for the younger animals no side affects at all on fox but a fox that has pulled out or has been pinched yes....you can catch fox in traps straight out of the box and even with rusty traps but is it best to do so ? the answer is no..if you keep using rusty traps then the quicker you need to replace the traps but were a trap dyed and wax you will get several years on traps and more on others
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Post by huntinglonewolf on Jun 27, 2007 23:17:48 GMT -5
I belive the animals are so use to human sent as it really don't make much difference.
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possumskinner
Grinner Skinner
POOP KING
What ya see is What ya get!!!
Posts: 319
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Post by possumskinner on Jun 28, 2007 1:26:25 GMT -5
stay clean,ya know dont be emptying your bladder to close to your set. Really dont believe your gonna fool that canine nose,they know how old that scent is. An example: they know if it was 10 minutes ago or at 6am this morning by how fresh your trail is. Human scent to me isnt an issue in farm country,were they smell humans all the time. WTA,were ya out aways were yotes have little human contact? Mink - I beg to differ (nothin personal), Pete & Ron Leggett said it a long time ago and usually always said it again during a demo ... don't go peein on your competitions sets cause you've just enhanced them ten fold!!! Some truth to that whether you - me or whoever wants to believe it or not! Take a wiz out in your yard ... let your dog trot by it ... what ya think he's gonna do? Yep, mark right over it with his own! It's an instinctive response! I aint saying it should be a common occurence or suggest urinating anywhere near your sets and I personally will never intentionally do so but thought I'd add a lil insight to your orginal claim! ;D
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Post by Earl8656 on Jun 28, 2007 10:05:29 GMT -5
Human scent is always an issue....IMHO....its the strength of it, is whats important.. There is not much land in my area that isn't walked on by humans on a regular basis(I'm talking the same travelways used by canines are used by humans). They live with us and are in a constant state of alertness because of that; however, they can tell when we were there and how long ago. If you've ver had the opportunity to watch "Newt" give a snaring demo u will always hear him say that when u set a snare in a trail, that after you finish to keep on down the trail, so that it doesn't look like u stopped and turned around there. They will always know u've been there, but are not alarmed cause u didn't stop, or at least kept going.
On the subject of peeing on a set, I wouldn't go that far....but if you put a rock in the field and pee on it every dog, fox and coyote that come by are gonna do the same.....nature's way!
I do not worry about scent on water traps because !. they're underwater...2. I wear hip boots and gauntlets.
Rusty traps would make no difference over a non-rusted one, as long as it is bedded solid, did u ever stop and ask yourself how many times does a fox go digging around old junk piles for mice? Rust is a constant in their world.
These are my opinions, so u know what they're worth ;D
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Post by pegleg on Jun 28, 2007 17:09:37 GMT -5
Don't know of to many spots left in the lower 48 where an animal hasn't or won't run into human scent. Its the petrolm products that will get ya. On the soles of boots, pickup, atv, etc. Do believe rust smells(traps, chain, drags) will cause a digging reaction, in my corner of the planet. Sure be careful and clean.
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Post by Sunshine on Jun 28, 2007 23:38:17 GMT -5
well i have wondered the question about rusts cause ive always heardcoyotes and cats afraid of the scent of rust
but if that were true.theyd never cross under a fence, IMO
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Post by pegleg on Jun 29, 2007 7:58:47 GMT -5
It is the buried smell that gets them. Most fences are in the air and very little rust. But depends on the area. High humidity, rain were rust is more prevalent wouldn't be much of a factor. In the west little to no rain, very low humidities it is a factor. Or even blood on the trap I have seen intense digging reactions. Fences, like people is just something animals are use to.
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Post by Earl8656 on Jun 29, 2007 8:03:30 GMT -5
I agree peg, as was stated earlier, it is what the animal is used to, here in the farmland of the east, old scrap piles and junkpiles are prevalent......not to mention old plow points, horseshoes, railroad spikes, etc.etc......If a fox or coyote would dig at every piece of rust he smelled around here he wouldn't get very far in a night of hunting...lol
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Post by pegleg on Jun 29, 2007 8:13:11 GMT -5
yep, that was my point. but something about in the west buried rust smell and I think along with the unsually lure/bait smell will cause an old wise coyote to dig. bad expericense I don't know. but do know on my line the coyotes know me quite well expecially the older ones.
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